DtG - I should [and do ] know better - but this fills in a few boring minutes every now and then between 'to do' list chores...

More seriously, it seems we reached a point where Jim despairs of ever having any serious debate on this subject
while the dynamic duo do their best to kill reasonable discussion stone dead with sheer prejudice before even it begins...

So if you can't beat 'em.. I might as well have some fun playing with 'em...???

well... I'm not perfect...