Frank, you're not going to offend me by telling me you're proud of me!! *BG* I've found (or discovered) that sometimes you have to let them find their own way and just be there to help pick up the pieces when they stumble. There's a lot of breath-holding involved, though. It is sweet though, when you realize that some of what you've tried to teach them has actually sunk in. Maybe some parent of a troubled teen will take heart from my experience.

jeffp