The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #164112   Message #3924559
Posted By: Jim Carroll
15-May-18 - 03:56 AM
Thread Name: How reliable is Folk History ?
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: How reliable is Folk History ?
"The entire song is absolute nonsense."
It represents a satirical view by the man in the street of a very real event which took place on the eve of World War One and, if it hadn't been for that war, would have signalled a turning point in Ireland's history (not necessarily a good one, some believe)
The Easter Week uprisings a couple of years later made it's decisions irrelevant anyway
If you actually read the historical link to what was put up you would know who TP was - as you appear to not be interested in what others have to say or what the 'man in the street' passed on to is in the form of oral history, I see little point in continuing with you
I sense an atmosphere of hostility from you and others towards the idea that "our betters" were anything less than paragons of virtue - very much not the case, I'm afraid
As I said, much of Irish history in the latter half of the 19th century has been shunned and manipulated and many of the details have been preserved in songs, tales and oral accounts; as unreliable as they may be, at least we have them.
The 1930s 'Schools Project' probably holds more accessible history on certain subjects than do our libraries.
I've alredy mentioned The Famine; another example of suppressed formal history is the Easter Week Uprising - massively covered in songs and accounts from the point of view of the rebels
After the rising, 15 of the leaders were secretly tried, condemned and executed (without the right to speak on their own behalf or a defence council to represent them)
Despite British laws of disclosure, the details of those 'trials' are still not accessible to either researchers or the public.
A mass of details of the Rising appeared for the first time two years ago, mainly from newspapers and oral accounts - a century after the events
Many, many more remain as inaccessible as they were 100 years ago, locked away in the archives in (I think) Kew Gardens.
Can I make it clear - my interest in all this is not political - I am not Irish and I certainly am not a nationalist
Four decades of collecting and research has whetted my curiosity as to the importance of songs as history bearers - discussions like this have gone some way to convince me that they are essential in providing a view of the participants that has largely been missed or deliberately ignored - in many cases they are the only accounts we have
Lord Leitrim is an excellent example of this
Thanks for your last ironic comment Steve - I concur absoluteely
Thanks also for the comments from Down Under - a country with a short but eventful history inseparable linked to Britain's and in some ways an essential resource for understanding our own (I regard Hughes's 'The Fatal Shore' a fantastic 'in' to understanding our poaching and transportation repertoire and the Enclosures which inspired them)
I still haven't had a reply to my "why" concerning Leitrim - though I appreciate the reference to typos as an indication that I probably won't get one
Jim Carroll