The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #162666   Message #3936459
Posted By: Vic Smith
10-Jul-18 - 10:08 AM
Thread Name: New Book: Folk Song in England
Subject: RE: New Book: Folk Song in England
Jim wrote:-
"Is there any evidence that the broadside hack didn't get the song from the oral tradition?"

No there isn't - not in many cases anyway.
Is there any evidence that the broadside hack did get the song from the oral tradition?
No there isn't.

Therefore until this can be settled one way or another, why don't we stick to what we do know for certain which is that a high percentage of what was passed on and developed in the oral tradition was in print at a very early stage in the circulation of what we now call folk songs. Surely, this could summerise the thinking behind the book under discussion?

In addition, I would say that you are confusing and conflating two attitudes expressed in this thread towards academia:-
1] That you and Mike and others that I could mention have met with objections and obfuscation by degree-qualified 'experts' to your considerable song-collecting achievements. To me and I would imagine to others who have posted here this attitude is despicable and smacks of jealousy and smugness.
2] That modern academic approaches call for a rigour and backing of evidence in contemporary research and that whilst respecting the achievements of pioneers in their field, that the same levels of severe examination should be applied in reassessing and evaluating earlier publications and attitudes. To me and I would imagine to others who have posted here this is entirely admirable.

Pseu wrote
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/letters.htm

The piece provides examples of the range of methods used to reach the conclusion, which I found interesting, as I had been wondering about these. An example is good to see, and hopefully, relevant to the debates on this thread."


Pseu's link to Musical Traditions (which I have made clickable) takes us to a short series of posts under the title of Old Songs. If this is what he is referring to, I am not sure that that it reaches any conclusion, surely that we were just sharing information on a particular song in the way that also happens on Mudcat (with Jim Carroll being a notably useful contrubutor to these).
Also my description of the MT website would substitute "essential" for your "bit of a mixed bag, maybe,"