Brian; I should be careful and refer to Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight. The one about a lady who elopes, but realises her lover is a serial killer, tricks him and escapes back home, where in some versions the family parrot has to be mollified.

On the one with riddles, something I came across says it is often spoken of as if the same as one with similes in, when the two are different. Can't remember where now.

Brian: yes I should be careful and refer to Lady Isabel and the Elfin Kt. That's the one I'm on about.

Steve: Thanks for your comments of 4.10. I am most definitely a newcomer compared with all the expertise on this amazing website.

Music has always been important for me, but mostly listening and attempting to play, not reading about its history. I've tried various instruments, but mainly stuck with guitar, and the keyboard at Xmas for family carol singing! Over the years I was a regular audience member at a couple of 'folk' sessions, but not really a participant. I once played melodeon (quite badly, but well enough, I guess) for a Morris side. I little direct knowledge of traditional folk beyond this, though these discussions have sent me to Spotify where quite a lot referred to is available.

My musical tastes are eclectic: the 'folk' in my record/tape/CD collection is a mixture of dare I say this in this context Fairport, The Pogues, Planxty, some Cajun, Katherine Tickell (seen at Sidmouth years ago) etc. I grew up listening to my parents' jazz and being taught by them a story about slavery/blues/jazz probably I now realise not unrelated to the US leftish musical stuff pre-and post-war, Lomax, Hammond etc and learning to play piano, then later liking some pop music, including early Led Zep (who themselves went all 'folky' at one point, and bluesy stuff. I imagine Jim Carroll wincing at this list and probably others. But I suppose I feel comfy with the general 'leftishness' of the folk revival, if not with a great deal of Lloyd's specific left approach.

I first bought a whole book (Karpeles) some years ago because I was doing a course on musical theory which covered modes (it seems it is standard in music theory nowadays but wasn't when I did it as a kid) and browsing in a charity bookshop music section I noted that Karpeles had a bit on modes. I cannot even remember why I bought Lloyd now (2nd hand via ABE books); there will have been something specific that sparked my interest. So I suppose I picked stuff up from these two initial books (and forget a lot as well).

Being retired and not fit enough to do much gardening I like to try to fend off dementia by keeping the brain active. So if I get interested in something, I'll read round the subject, tending to skim, and maybe choose a bit within the topic to look at more closely, even if by the method of opening Lloyd at random and going on from there.

My degree was English and Psychology: I've taught 'language (linguistics) and literature courses (as well as non-literate adults, as it happens), and been on educational research courses including semiotics. So I encountered Propp (mentioned by Lloyd) in the Eng Lit context. Looking at texts in their contexts, and looking for the narrator's perspectives .. attempting 'critical reading' or sources, I guess somethings might be transferable.

I have lurked on the mudcat site on and off for a few years now, I guess. I think it's amazing.

Roud's book was basically a birthday present I chose when asked for hints, probably because I had seen it mentioned on this site, now I come to think of it. So when I found this thread, I learned a lot from it and then thought I'd join in with it, and very interesting it has been, and I am glad it didn't get the red card, though I think it must have come close at several points.

Tzu