The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #164528   Message #3940089
Posted By: Richie
28-Jul-18 - 11:29 AM
Thread Name: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
Subject: RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 4
Hi,

Gr8 ty Richard and Mick. I also have Joe Heaney's version from c. 1940 (Joe sang in Irish exclusively when he was young and thought in Irish- it's on the same thread as Mick's link-- but it's unattributed there) and the 1881 version posted above which has one stanza transcribed by Joyce.

I just transcribed three more German versions and have 5 total, plus three Swedish and four Italian. I'm starting to sort out the versions and have this as a preliminary sketch (in approximate chronological order):

A. "L'Avvelenato" (The Poisoned") dated 1629 from a fragment printed in Verona, Italy, 1656 from stanzas quoted by Lorenzo Panciatichi.
    a. ["L'Avvelenato"] no title given, the opening three lines of "L'Avvelenato" from a blind singer named Camillo called "il Bianchino." The lines and four introductory lines were printed in Veronese broadside dated 1629.
    b. ["L'Avvelenato"] no title given, from Lorenzo Panciatichi who refered to the ballad in a "Cicalata in lode della Padella e della Frittura," recited at the Crusca, September 24, 1656, and in such manner as shows that it was well known. He quotes the first question of the mother, "Dove andastù a cena," etc. To this the son answered, he says, that he had been poisoned with a roast eel: and the mother asking what the lady had cooked it in, the reply was, In the oil pot.

B. "Lord Randal" ("Randle" names, "Randal, my son") standard English, c. 1775 Suffolk- Parsons; also Scottish; American. Includes variant names of Randal. Child A, S.

C. "Lord Ronald (Lord Donald)." Scottish, Scots Musical Museum, 1793, No. 327, from Bums' MS.

D. "Tiranti, my Son." Child I, American, includes the "Soper" versions c. 1790s but earlier.

E. "Croodlin' Doo" Scottish late 1700s
    a. "Wee Croodin Doo" from Walter Scott vis his daughter dated late 1700s by published by Chambers in 1870.

F. "Grossmutter Schlangenköchin," (Grandmother Adder-Cook), 1802 but late 1700s also "Schlangenköchin,"
    a. "Grossmutter Schlangenköchin." From oral transmission in Maria's [Clem. Brentano's] novel "Godwi. Bremen, 1802." B. 2, p.
    b. "Grossmutter Schlangenköchin." 1802 Knaben Wunderhern
    c. "Die Schlangenköchin," from Hessen, N. Germany, published in 1838 by Kretzschmer in From: Deutsche Volkslieder mit ihren Original-Weisen. Reprinted many times including Broadwood, JFSS.
    d. "Schlangenköchin" from the neighborhood of Wilsnack, Brandenburg, from Deutscher Liederhort by Ludwig Christian Erk, 1856.

G. "Den Lillas Testamente" Swedish, dated late 1700s, early 1800s

H. "My Pretty Boy" Irish, then American c. 1836
    a. "Oh, where were you all day?" single stanza from "Poems" by Mary Boddington, 1836, p. 313.

I. "Tif fy mab anwyl " (My Dear Son) Welsh c. 1856
    a. "My Dear Son" Mrs. John Davies of Liverpool, who had heard it sung at Talysarn, Carnarvonshire, nearly half a century ago, by her eldest sister.

J. "Amhrán na hEascainne" (Song of the Eel) Gaelic early date 1868 sung in Gaelic only
    a. [no title ] Dr. Hyde informs from taken down in 1881 from a woman named Ellen Healy, who learned it from a Kerry girl in 1868 publish in "Eriu" 1907.
    b. "Amhrán na hEascainne" (Song of the Eel) sung by Joe Heaney dated. c. 1940

K. "Henry, my son" ("Henery, my Son") modern c. 1900s variants Irish, English dated 1904 Sharp, 1926 Collinson.

* * * *

So I have A-K so far. I know there are other foreign version but Italy, Germany and Sweden have multiple versions so I'm limiting the scope to a few variants from these country.

Suggestions welcome,

Richie