A valid point, Gordon, but I've also realised I reacted as though the whole lot is an "either / or", which of course they aren't. Some are obviously song, and stated as such - But the dwarves only started to sing "Chip the glasses..." and over the page, and this is like a fragment of their song, if it can be like their song without their music. "Far over the misty mountains cold..." Although I've always thought of the latter as more a slow, deep-voiced chant than a song.

Others are more equivocal - The Road Goes Ever On appears once in TH & 3 times in LotR, 3 times spoken, only once is it implied that it is sung, in a low voice, as if to himself, he sang softly in the dark... I say 'implied' because elsewhere it is only spoken, and one may recite in a 'singing' voice, without ever applying a melody (if you see what I mean - a chant, again). And others, again, are surely poems only. Many poems are only poems, and many lyrics are lyrics only (recite them & they're just bad doggerel!), however profound they might be as songs. What does anyone make of "Down, down to Goblin-town"? It was amusingly set to music in the Ralph Bakshi LotR film, but goblins don't strike me as particularly musical folk. I've always thought of it as something to be shouted more than anything! I don't actually know (& can't right now be bothered to look up) what Swann set, or argue over which really are songs.

As for orchestra, whilst I've already said I largely agree, it also has to be said... I don't know how many Catters are gamers; I am, an inveterate one. I joined LotRO (Lord of the Rings Online) at launch in 2007. I've gone back to it this year after a 4 year break (for reasons I won't bore anyone with). The music in that is fantastic; in other games, I usually switch the music off because it's a distraction, in LotRO I leave it on. I believe most of it was originally computer-generated, but latterly it is not. There are no pianos! ;-) And the rest of it is not a regular modern orchestra by any means.

They brought in Chance Thomas to write the music for the Riders of Rohan expansion. I think they've continued to use him since. They even take the trouble to use A/S & JRR's languages (as far as they can) for lyrics. If anyone wants a listen, there is a soundtrack here, (although my favourite is this one). The site (if you look under 'T') has another couple of earlier LotRO soundtrack albums too.

My apologies to David again for thread drift. I console myself with the thought that 1) I'm talking music for a change (instead of rubbish!), and 2) I'm keeping his thread current, so he might get another response to his actual query! *bg*