The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #4984   Message #3976599
Posted By: GUEST,Allan Conn
14-Feb-19 - 02:41 AM
Thread Name: The Flower of Scotland
Subject: RE: The Flower of Scotland
Well my point was that it of course wouldn't offend them. Not only are they descended from Bruce through James VI who became King of England too but as you say they are British rulers so why would singing about one of the national heroes of one part of Britain offend them. Re the Edward II yes of course there is a connection there too. I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The point was my better half only considered the connection between the present royal family and the English royal line. She didn't even know at the time that the Queen was dsecended from Bruce through the Scottish royal line. A very anglo-centric view on things which 30 odd years of living with me has mostly eradicated :-)

I had another friend at our local club who said something the same as Actius Aquila. Basically that Scottish folk songs are mostly about hating the English etc etc etc. Fine saying that but when I asked him to list such songs it then becomes much harder. I produced the wee book 100 Great Scottish Songs produced by Soodlum with many of the better known Scottish folk songs and from that only two songs could be described as being about specifically conflict with the English. One is 'Scots Wha Hae' basically the Burns poem which is supposedly Bruce addressing his troops before Bannockburn. So it is about fighting the invader but the idea that you can't have a song about one of the defining moments of Scottish history is plainly absurd. The other is the song "Haughs of Cromdale" which introduces "the English" into something they weren't actually directly involved in. So yes that is one song which could be described as putting the English in as adversaries when they weren't historically - but that is one song out of 100 in total.

I am not saying there are no other songs about fighting the English or in some way having a go at the English but the truth is that they are more conspicuous by their absence rather than their presence in the overall number of songs. And it would take someone of heightened paranoia to imagine every song dealing with historical conflict with the English is an anti-English song. For instance the Lammas-Tide is basically just the first few verses of the Battle Of Otterburn. Yes it deals with the subject of Scots fighting the English but it doesn't actually slag off or diss the English. It is simply a narrative of events as told according to the ballad. That isn't anti anything - it is only telling a story.

And I have yet to understand why Killiecrankie was used as an example by the other poster. There is absolutely nothing anti-English about it and doesn't even mention the English or anything about England. Killiecrankie was a battle between Scottish Jacobites and the Scottish gvt army. The narrator in the song is a Scottish gvt soldier who has just been at the battle. He meets another soldier who wasn't at the battle and he tells him about the battle and how awful it was. It honestly takes a bit of a twisted turn of logic to suggest that is anti-English in any way!