The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #6761   Message #39805
Posted By: Art Thieme
28-Sep-98 - 10:24 PM
Thread Name: Origin: Tell Old Bill
Subject: RE: Tell Old Bill
On the Georgia Sea Islands where a slave-type culture lasted longer because of the isolation from the mainland, it was sung

"Ol' Bill the rollin' pin,
This mornin' this evening...
Old Bill the rollin' pin, he had a hog eye and a double chin.

I gee to the mule but the mule wouldn't ge-e---this mornin', this evenin'...
I gee to the mule but the mule wouldn't gee,
So I hit him side the head with the single tree,
This mornin this evenin, so soon.

[This was a covered up way of talking about the policeman, Bill, who hit the people with his club--ie. the "rollin' pin"---without Bill knowing what was going on.]

Other songs also had this tune:
The Crawdad Song

versions of Frog Went a Courtin' ("unh-huh" instead of "this mornin")

"Mama Don't 'Low" (also has the same tune!)

"Pittsburgh Town"---by Woody Guthrie & the Almanacs see Pete Seeger's American Industrial Ballads on Folkways

Pittsburgh town is a smoky old town, In Pittsburgh (3 times)
Solid iron from McKeesport down...

What did Jones and Laughlan steal, in Pittsburgh
What did Jones and Laughlan steal,
Up and down the river--just as far as you can see,
Lord, God, in Pittsburgh!

From the Allegheny to the O-hi-o, In Pittsburgh,
From the Allegheny to the O-hi-o They're joining up in the C.I.O....

All I do is cough and choak...
From the iron filings and the sulpher smoke...
In Pittsburgh--Lord, God, in Pittsburgh.

(ALSO: On the mainland the song "TELL OLD BILL" as printed in Sandburg's __American Songbag__ (1927)---and as sung by Bob Gibson on an early Riverside LP---took on very urban details (could've been written today):

Tell old Bill when he gets home, this mornin',
"
Tell ol' Bill when he gets home,
Leave them downtown gals alone,
This mornin', this evenin', so soon!

Bill he left by the alley gate, this mornin...
Old sal said, "Now, don't be late."...

They brought Bill home in a hurry-up wagon, this mornin',
They brought...poor dead Bill--his toes were a-draggin'...

Oh no, it can't be so, this mornin...
Oh no, it can't be so--Bill he left about an hour ago, This morning, this evening, so soon.

(I used to use this medley as an illustration of the oral tradition---the folk process in action---how one song morphed into another as it went from person to person. And then I would suggest we CREATE OUR OWN FOLSONG RIGHT NOW!! I'd take just the forst line of the various versions--and come up with:

Tell old Bill when he gets home, this mornin',
That frog went a ridin' and he did ride, Unh hunh,
So you get a line and I'll get a pole, cause we don't care what mama don't 'low,
In Pittsburgh, Lord, God, in Pittsburgh.

I do hope this'll help you out some. I'm exhausted tonight and wasn't up to writing all these out like I might've. Have fun!

Art Thieme