The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #166609   Message #4007906
Posted By: Steve Shaw
08-Sep-19 - 08:34 PM
Thread Name: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
Subject: RE: BS: Brexit 'Take Back Control' D Cummings
Bunch of lies, Nigel, and you know it.

First, immigration. We have total control, if we want it, over non-EU immigration. Yet non-EU immigration routinely exceeds EU immigration. Care to explain?

Next, EU laws. We are bound only by laws concerning food standards, animal welfare standards and the rest that are not only rather good laws (chlorine chicken, anyone?) but which we have wholeheartedly agreed with. We have wholeheartedly agreed with over 95% of EU laws and regulations over the last 30 years, abstained on about two percent and been outvoted on the rest, most of that "rest" being pretty trivial. In general, most EU regulations are unanimously agreed to without the need to go to a vote. That is, agreed to by 28 countries, Nigel. In the case of important issues that we may wish to disagree with, we, as a large EU nation, have the veto. For example, there can never be an EU army whilst we are members because we have vetoed it. Finally on this point, the EU has no control over our domestic laws, none whatsoever. They can't control our policies on taxation, housing, health service, education, welfare, policing and the rest.

Next, "unelected bureaucrats." Yes, the Commission (in which we are intimately involved) suggests policy. But that can't be executed without the express consent of the European Parliament, which is an ELECTED body (did you vote, Nige?). As you say, the bureaucrats can "put forward" legislation. But that's all they can do. You appear to think that we're stupid enough to think that "put forward" means the same thing as "agree to" or "execute." Tough shit, Nigel. You may be hoping that the electorate in general are stupid enough to swallow that lie, but some of us here on Mudcat can see right through you, old bean.

Next, the money. Well, we were lied to about the amount we pay in, as you know, but yes, we do make a net contribution as one of the richest economies in the world. But, Nigel, our overall EU financial involvement is about one percent of our GDP. For that, we get to help poorer EU countries in order to enable them to continue to run themselves according to high standards in terms of democracy, human rights and the rule of law, the sort of thing that has kept the peace across Europe for the last seventy-five years, and, in return, we get assistance for the poorer regions in the UK and massive subsidies for our farmers. The net deficit is tiny in comparison with our overall GDP and we get lots in return in terms of standards and security. A small price to pay, some would say. And a bloody small price compared with what we'll be paying if we crash out. Think tariffs, Nige...

Next, budget not signed off. This is blatantly untrue. Last time I comprehensively dealt with that was with Teribus donkeys' years ago. I'm not going to keep countering blatant lies, Nigel. I'll be charitable to you on this occasion and assume that you haven't actually looked it up, rather that you've swallowed a bit of propaganda from somewhere or other.

Keep trying, Nigel, but do try not to keep casting yourself as a brexiteer desperado. If you think we're better out, give us your reasons, but stop wailing about what we all know is by far the best setup for the UK, imperfect though it is, which is to stay in. Your challenge is to give us the good news about life outside the EU. We're waiting...