The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #166643   Message #4008861
Posted By: Lighter
14-Sep-19 - 06:41 PM
Thread Name: Tune Req: Derry Down
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Derry Down
Joanna C. Colcord's "Roll and Go" (1924) sets "Dom Pedro" to the "Derry Down" tune.

In the much expanded "Songs of American Sailormen" (1937), Colcord identifies the singer as Mr. Harry Perry, alias "Jimmy Star" (of whom Colcord tells us no more).    ("Star" also contributed canonical versions of "The Banks of Newfoundland" and "Row, Bullies, Row.")

Now it gets interesting: Colcord (both eds.) observes that the Villikins-related tune of "The Dreadnought" "is a variant of an old English naval song, 'The Flash Frigate' or 'La Pique.'" In other words, she associated *neither* song with "Derry Down."

Whall (1910) likewise prints "La Pique" with a more-or-less Villikins-style tune, with the words to "The Dreadnought" he'd known at sea appended as sung to the same air. (For some reason, "La Pique" is omitted from Whall's later editions, illustration and all.)

The earliest "Derry Down/ La Pique" combination I have found appears in Seeger and MacColl's "Singing Island" (1960), "contributed by A. L. Lloyd," who (p. 53) vaguely credits Whall!

Hugill (1961) concurs that both "La Pique" (words from his father's notebook) and "The Dreadnought" went to Villikins-y airs.

But he also says (p. 465) that "Dreadnought" "was often sung, with the inconsequence typical of seamen, to the tune of another forebitter called 'The Dom Pedero' [sic]." He then prints the tune with a stanza of "The Dreadnought."

This raises once again the possibility (or probability) that Hugill and Lloyd were in contact before the appearance of either "Shanties" or "Singing Island." Hugill, unfortunately, gives no source for his information about "The Dreadnought" and "Derry Down."