Re: the suggestion that Iraqi claims of civilian losses are exagerated - do any of you know anyone who's been to Iraq during these hostilities? (Yes, I do . . two such visitors I know/knew well enough to trust their reports absolutely.) Though of course the casualties in these actions are limited enough compared to the number of Iraqis who continue to die from the effects of sanctions and the war (poisoning, generally considered to be radiation but might equally be heavy metal, IMO).

I'd guess the "President (for the time being) of the USA" (in cahoots with our very own godless "Christian Socialist Prime Minister) has managed to beat Sadam Hussain into second place in the "who can butcher the most Iraqis" stakes . . quite an achievement, really.

Of course one of the ironies of this is that Iraq is actually one of the most liberal and free of the Arab states (if you leave politics out of it - and few Arab states have significantly more political freedom).

As McGrath (I think it was he) observes, we ignored Sadam Hussain when he gassed the Kurds, we've alowed Turkey to increase her persecution of the Kurds in return for providing practical support for "our" attacks on Iraq . . and we supplied Iraq with the material from which her chemical and biological weapons are derived . . To claim there is any moral basis for the current actions is pure hypocracy - "we" attack Iraq when "we" feel it is in our political interest to do so.

Oh - and the reason the US has never "finished the job" with Sadam is that they WANT him to remain in power . . That's why they backed out after encouraging uprisings against him in Iraq.

And Troll, you're talking nonsense . . The Kurds want the return of the lands which were theirs (now split between Iraq, Turkey and Saudi) until the "Western Powers" imposed the current borders on the area (just as the Iraq/Kuwait border was imposed and has always been in dispute). But I still wonder why you condone Turkish action against the Kurds but condem similar action by Iraq.

Oh, and the Sunnis are in the majority in ALL of Iraq, including Baghdad. And, to a very large extent, Iraqis don't want the overthrow of Sadam because they suspect they'd be even worse off if that were to happen . . (This view is also held by many expatriot Iraqis, strongly opposed to Sadam - who also point to the disarray of the different Iraqi opposition groups in exile).

G.