Jim, by your own admission you haven't been on the English folk scene for years, if not decades.

Dave is a regular visitor to folk cubs, I think he may have a better insight into the folk scene, at least in the area he travels in than you do.

The folk scene in my area, when I am in England is vibrant, AND by two closest clubs are not mentioned in the lists provided as I suggest dozens of others are not.

I and I suspect most people do not NEED or WISH to define folk music, we leave that to people like yourself.

I will add that had I met your in the late sixities when I started visited clubs I would hve run a mile, you would have bored me stiff and I certainly wouldn't have gone on to perform, run clubs and help orgainse festivals.