Sorry pfr And another relative I had played pub piano purely by ear, despite being very deaf, and could not read one word of music. No idea at all how he learned: should have asked. Much much too late now! People do have amazing musical talent without training!

Sorry I was thinking that Pardon might have at some level been influenced by his military service. I realise you were on a different track. I must not fall into the trap of not reading before responding, there is enuff of that …

Bacon and egg butty time.