Sorry Howard, I see what you mean now. By 'traditional' in this case, I will have meant older than the turn of the 20th century. So in the case where a tradition is seen as something that has duration through time, earlier examples. Hoping you find the point less extraordinary now, and apols for any misunderstanding attributable to my too hasty and ill=formed posts. Thanks again for the discussion. No time to think about other points you make now: all interesting.

By the way it was a fib about the egg. That was yesterday, today was a chippy tea and in future I shall put the sugar on the banana and the vinegar on the chips.