Regarding the exhortation not to forget that I said my granddad was a better singer.

OK

Introduction.

I read recently an account by Peggy Seeger of why she and MacColl did not use the techniques of trad singers in the UK as the basis for their singing tuition. She said it was because they were basically mostly elderly and not particularly good. I also note on the other Pardon Mudcat thread a poster called Nick who comments, without bile or 'toxicity' his honest response that Pardon sounds like an old chap and he cannot quite see what all the fuss is about.

Both of these leave me justified in being at leasts somewhat underwhelmed by the singing I encountered when, and there is nothing to be ashamed of in this, I was introduced to this singer by frequent references to him on Mudcat.

Comparing him with my granddad, 'Tom', both had working class origins but in Tom's case the village he grew up in had cows etc above ground and coal mines under it. He was the son and grandson of coal miners; his grandfather died in a pit accident. Tom fought in WWI so was from an older generation. Both Pardon and Tom were born after the introduction of compulsory state education (so neither can be seen as in some line of pure oracy). Both were involved with the Methodist movement in their youth, a movement which made a great deal out singing. Both appear to have been 'taught' singing at school. In Tom's case he was taught the tonic sol-fa which he could read. He sang a lot in public until his bladder would not cope with long intervals away from the porcelain! But I never remember his voice having that 'old' quality that you get with Pardons. Moreover, he could sing a chromatic octave perfectly by ear and I do not think that if he started with C as doh he ended up with C# as doh.

By the way, Hillery comments how carefully Pardon breaths at the ends of lines and at suitable pauses in his songs, and I too noticed this and thought somebody has taught him when singing to take a breath at the pauses. I think one of the online interviews with Pardon he mentions doing folk singing at school so this theory holds up.

So one of the research questions I might have had in respect of Pardon might have been what singing he did do at school, and how this was done. The focus on the 'old songs' they sung at home, the ones he learned orally may have led to information that might have affected his delivery later in life being missed. Indeed, nobody seems to have realised that he went to a Methodist Sunday School, despite Methodism and political radicalism being linked in that part of the world, with a quite well-known leader being active in the very village of Knapton.

As for being embarrassingly bad, I repeat what I have said before about the song Pardon called 'The Bush of Australia'. The recording in which Pardon and a number of rather posh sounding men sit smirking about 'Cock a Doodle Doo, and the song itself are all rather embarrassing, and, as I have said, Lloyd's comments that the Australians did not like it and that the hints that the woman was black were expunged from later versions because it was about 'miscegenation' all seem to me to betray 'racist' attitudes/assumptions. But having listened to the recording this was more or less the first song I listened to on Spotify.

I am sure Pardon had all the good qualities ascribed to him: intelligence, sense of humour etc (as indeed did my Granddad) but I find the 'reverence' (Steve Gardam and I have discussed this term on this thread I think) with which he is mentioned somewhat OTT and I think that if the folk world really wants to draw in younger people it may have to think this OTT stuff through a bit, as well as some of the ideological stuff that shines through so much 2nd revival literature.

I don't intend to insult or upset anybody, I am just being honest. The world has changed since the early days of the 2nd revival and maybe, just maybe, 'folk' needs to deal with that if it really isn't to become history (along with the planet, perhaps).

My goodness, I do seem to be going off on one. No offence intended, just a frank, and I hope, not insulting or 'toxic'.