The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #169138   Message #4087536
Posted By: GUEST
11-Jan-21 - 03:35 PM
Thread Name: Lady Keith's Lament guitar part help?
Subject: RE: Lady Keith's Lament guitar part help?
johnmc: yes you're right about the opening notes - with the capo at the 5th fret, it's basically an open E minor shape with the melody notes C and B on the high E. That colorful chord you mention, I have that notated and it sounds exactly as on the recording. Everything works perfectly and sounds as on the record until I reach (I think) the 5th or 6th measure, and then I hear things that make me sure that they're using some other tuning.

Nick: Did you run that through some automatic transcriber? Does Musecscore do that (I use it for notation but haven't explored it fully). Odd that it read the time signature as 3/4, if that's so. As for the parts that need a retune - when you get into it in more detail, those become apparent. I have some experience in the "close forensics" of this stuff, having been part of the transcribing team that did the official Bert Jansch songbook. There's a lot of detective work goes into things like finding out tunings. For example, if I hear two successive notes of the same pitch but which sound a little different in tone, there's usually two possibilities. One, they're on adjacent strings in a tuning that has a close interval between strings (like the 2nd and 3rd strings in DADGAD), and two, that it's a fretted note played with an open string of the same pitch. If the notes are in the range of the higher strings, that first possibility must be considered. But if they're lower notes, that's usually a sign that you're hearing an open string since I don't think there are any common tunings with such a close interval in the lower strings that it allows for easy playing of unison notes on adjacent strings. In Lady Keith's Lament, there's a bit where I hear an A note played on the D string, after another A note of the same octave, but with an obviously different tone. And I'm like "huh? that doesn't work in standard/drop D tuning!" Hence the puzzlement...

cnd: yes you're quite right, it could well be twin guitars harmonizing each other. Or even in different tunings, or capoed at different frets. In which case, I'm kind of screwed if I want an accurate transcription. I already knew I wasn't going to get that though, since much of the guitar is masked by the vocal, which is mixed way louder. So when I get to those parts, there's going to be a lot of guesswork and Sherlock Holmes-style deduction anyway. Usually when it's something like another instrument or two guitars, and you're transcribing for solo guitars, you have to make a lot of compromises. I'm just keen to at least get the right tuning from the get go, in order to make the harder parts easier.