Dave I will certainly be there-and hope to share a dram or 2 and perhaps a scented ciggy to the memory of our mutual friend from Leigh Long may you run Malc -unlike the bulls which I hope will cease to run asap. To return to the bull thing. When I started this thread I hoped for some new light on the subject and to reexamine my feelings on it. I accept Art's and others views that some cultures include mutilation and killing as part of their social history. What I cannot accept is that people can defend their enjoyment of the spectacle. If their cat/dog/budgie was tortured and killed while people stood around and cheered they would be pretty upset Im sure. Is it possible to have feelings about some animals and not about all animals? Art, did you keep a pet during the period of your enjoyment of the corrida? If so how did you square the two concepts and keep them seperate-I am interested in how anyone feels able to do that. All the best Phil