We've given up on whole turkeys, partly for the reasons Raggytash gives. Mrs Steve and I adore all the underneath meat, the wings and the legs for cold the next day, but everybody else who comes to our house only wants breast. So by Boxing Day the carcass we're left with has brown meat only. So last year, along with our whole turkey, we tried a boned, rolled turkey breast joint from Pipers Farm (all free-range, traditional breeds, slow-grown, superb ethics but admittedly a bit pricey). It was lovely, so we're having two of those this year for two separate family visits, plus our usual boiled free-range unsmoked gammon, and no whole turkey. I'll miss the pope's nose, for which I never have any competition from the others, the fools. It's by far the tastiest bit of any turkey. I always make stock from a chicken carcass, but I'm not a fan of turkey stock, which can be a bit assertive.