This thread has moved on considerably since I last posted and most of the questions I had have been answered. That said my quote on yesterdays post referring to Communal re composition, was from memory and incorrect. I should have said communal re creation and credited Phillips Barry. Yes Robert it was more than a few years ago. However it provoked your interesting reply covering the myth of communal composition, which was excellent.
The lightbulb moment for me was Steve's post that suggested that' Any musical genre (in fact most genres) are not finite. As you demonstrate, there are variable factors involved and the relationships between any genres can best be demonstrated by Venn diagrams.'
That's OK if you are familiar with Venn diagrams which I was not. So I
found out and all became plain to me so many thanks Steve (again!)
I have drawn the conclusion from reading this thread, that the term traditional is as controversial as the 1958 folk song definition (or list of descriptors) and the term is used as much outside the the arts as within:- Family traditions, Civic traditions Royal traditions, etc. When we are attempting to use the term in respect of Folk music it is too general to be any useful definition. A Tweedle dum Tweedle dee argument of what is in or out of the tradition is doomed to failure but no doubt will use a river of ink from now to eternity.
I have spent half my life messing about with Gypsy Wagons, for local people and numerous celebrities. I had to work on a wagon for an international Rock Star from one of the world's biggest bands who was also a Gypsy. He wanted a traditional Gypsy living wagon. I had to decide between renovation restoration, or invention, but most of all stay within the tradition. The original I offered him was made up an old lane in 1945 with a selection of hand saws, a hammer and a box of nails. There was not a single screw in it. The front board was rotten. I rebuilt it using power tools and screws and foreign timber. It looked identical to the original and I gilded it in 23.5 carat gold also foreign in origin. Was it traditional? Yes. Was it original about 75%. Was it a restoration or a renovation? It was both to the same percentage. The parallels to folk song are obvious. We hear of the singer who grabbed Sharp by the lapels with tears in her eyes after singing an old song saying 'Isn't it beautiful! The first thing the afore mentioned Rock star said to me as he sat in his wagon looking at the glass cabinet I had repainted was 'I can put my mothers china in here'. Neither artist was bothered about a definition. Traditional songs tell us something quotes Robert quite correctly with this thread most of us have been listening to the songs and to each other and I would like to think we have come away wiser. I know I have.