Thank you, Richard. You are right about thread drift, but the subject is so wide that Lloyd's scholarship cannot be covered in isolation. It always helps if the contributor knows what he is posting about, not always the case on this thread. I think enough has been said now and bloating is not warranted as you pointed out. It has been very useful and has introduced me to Robert's research, and increased my book collection (again!). I for one will not be engaging in any more arguing here.