The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #90255   Message #4212658
Posted By: Robert B. Waltz
01-Dec-24 - 08:18 PM
Thread Name: Battle of the Folk Bands: PP&M vs. KT
Subject: RE: Battle of the Folk Bands: PP&M vs. KT
This is hardly my area of expertise, and I'm not sure why this thread has been revived, but there are things to consider. As some have pointed out, KT did some pretty strange stuff -- but PP&M were pretty weird at the end, too, ("The Great Mandala"? That's not folk; that's -- I dunno, psychosis?)

The flip side is, the KT wasn't really a "folk" group; they were just a "commercial" group that did folk songs. PP&M, as others have pointed out, were a created group, not one that arose naturally.

But if one compares them musically, it's pretty much no contest. Hasn't anyone read Milt Okun's recollections? Okun was music director/arranger/creative consultant for a bunch of people (Chad Mitchell Trio; PP&M; anybody ever hear of the Shaw Brothers? And he recorded with Ellen Steckert.)

Since the Chad Mitchell Trio was mentioned, it's worth noting that he had almost no work to do with them. He brought in a song; they heard it and harmonized it themselves, because they could sing.

PP&M couldn't. Okun had to work out their parts and sing them in their ears, repeatedly, until they got it. Mary Travers couldn't even stay on pitch!

Instrumentally, all three of the original KT were competent, and Dave Guard was more than that. Peter Yarrow was a fairly good guitarist, Noel Stookey an adequate-but-no-more rhythm guitarist, and Mary Travers was a singer who couldn't even stay on pitch.

What people like is a matter of taste, but in terms of building blocks, the original KT had a lot more going for it. I think all that was good about PP&M came from Milt Okun (which might explain why the reunion was less successful; when they reunited, they had a different arranger).

Oh... and you might want to look up why PP&M was broken up. I use that word advisedly. It wasn't voluntary.