The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #174147   Message #4224591
Posted By: GUEST,Kevin W. aka Reynard the Fox on Youtube
23-Jun-25 - 11:54 AM
Thread Name: Lyr Add: Lord Gregory (Child 76) Versions
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Lord Gregory (Child 76) Versions
I'm not a scholar, only a ballad enthusiast, sadly I don't think I'd be able to contribute much of worth when it comes to analysing sources, ways of transmission etc..

I wish I could be more helpful in that regard. I created this topic to give an overview over audio recordings of traditional versions of Child 76 known to me. I've been collecting recordings of ballads from traditional singers as a hobby for many years.

All the recordings of Child 76 I gathered can be found in a Youtube playlist I created here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgvzUf8fD3o&list=PLVDpl8vHMkO-CfCb5dOI7762tT9Krl

Some of them came from CD, cassette and vinyl records I bought myself, others came from online archives such as the Tobar an Dualchais /Kist o Riches website:
https://www.tobarandualchais.co.uk/

I know the lines between tradition and revival are murky, as anyone with an interest in singing is happy to learn new songs, including source singers. But my main interest is in performances where it can be safe to assume the song had been circulating for a while and hasn't been learned directly from a book or a recording. Singing styles vary greatly from singer to singer and between generations, so it's hard to say what a traditional style is. I'm reminded of younger Traveller and Gypsy singers who sang the folk songs of their parents but adopted a cowboy style of singing from records they listened to. But often you can tell if a song was in circulation for a while or if it came directly from a fixed (print or record) source.

The transcription of Charlotte Higgins' text I provided came from a recording made by Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger in 1963. It was included in their book "Travellers' Songs From England and Scotland - Songs collected in 1962-1976" from 1977 which had been reissued as a CD together with the original field recordings by Musical Traditions in 2015. The song was recited, not sung on that occasion and there are differences compared to earlier recordings. I'm sorry for not reflecting that accurately in my post above.

One thing I did notice is that a few Child 76 performances from traditional singers in Ireland are identical to Mrs Elizabeth Cronin of West Cork's version, whether by oral transmission or via recordings of her singing re-entering tradition I don't know.

The performances descended from Mrs Cronin's version are:

Lord Gregory - Sung by Ollie Conway of Mullagh, Co. Clare. Recorded by Tom Munnelly on February 1st, 1985. From "Early Ballads in Ireland 1968-1985" (1985) Folk Music Society of Ireland.

Ollie Conway (b.1922) farmer/publican, Mullagh, Co. Clare, in his tiny pub on a freezing 1 February 1985. Ollie is well known in his locality as a fine traditional dancer and one of the most popular singers in West Clare. He learned the ballad from the late Sinie Crotty of Kilbaha, Co. Clare; it seems to derive from Mrs Elisabeth Cronin, Co...Cork. Rec. TM.

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Lord Gregory - Sung by Siney Crotty of Ross, Kilbaha. Recorded by Jim Carroll and Pat Mackenzie at ‘The Singers Club’ in London in the mid-1970s.

Note by Jim Carroll:
“Originating in Scotland, ballad scholar Dr Hugh Shields has traced its first recorded discovery in Ireland in 1850 right through to its last recording from County Clare singer, Ollie Conway in 1985, via its inclusion in James Joyce’s short story ‘The Dead’.

Refrence:
The History of The Lass of Aughrim, Dr. Hugh Shields
The Dead (short story) from Dubliners, James Joyce
The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, F.J. Child
The Canterbury Tales, Geoffrey Chaucer
The Songs of Elizabeth Cronin, Dáibhí Ó Cróinín

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Lord Gregory - Sung by Joe Heaney (Sheosaimh Uí Éanaí "Joe Éinniú") of Carna, Connemara, County Galway, Ireland. Recorded by Cynthia Thiessen at the University of Washington, Seattle on 06/03/1978.

Of the Child Ballads collected in Ireland, this one appears to have been particularly popular in Conamara. Unlike An Tiarna Randal, however, it was never translated into Irish, but was sung only in English. Joe told Lucy Simpson that he heard it from a number of people growing up, including his father and his second cousin, Colm Keane.

This was recorded while Joe was Artist in Residence at University of Washington.

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Of the recordings from Ireland known to me only Thomas Moran of County Leitrim's fragment and Irish Traveller versions are distinct from Mrs Cronin's text and tune.

I'd be very interested in reading Hugh Shields' article "The History of The Lass of Aughrim", which answers the question of origin and line of transmission in Ireland, but I don't have access to it.