no one3 can honestly claim a victory in the war of 1812.

the americans did very badly considering they invaded canada twice with numbers almost equal to the whole canadian population, but they were ill trained conscripts and the natives were on canada's side and provided valuable raiding strength and reconance, while denying the americans supplies off the land and stoping them sending out any effective reconosance raids. however canada only rebuffed two invasions we didn't manage to conquer the us so it was realistically a draw.

from canad's point of view that's pretty good as canad's population was aproximately one twentieth of the us and the brits had little help tp send as they were rather tired up with that bum napolean.

as for cretien having no western support--that's a total myth. the liberals hold 15 seats out west out of 82, a significant presence on the caucaus. they have strenght out west in all the urban ridings and a few northern ones where the native vote swings the day. it the waspy rural west--still a significant force out there--that suppoert the right wing parties. the liberals have traditionally held together a coalition of catholics, urban poor and middle calss and new immigrants. in modern canada that will get you elected ten times out of ten. in fact the success of the tories under mulroney was because he stole the liberal postions successfully. this got him to power butleft his traditional western right wingers sorely disapointed as they had little more influence than under the liberals. these waspy rightists have a real problem with being a minority in a country they once ran like a private club, but as the western urban vote grows they will fade into well deserved obscurity.

the leader of the reform/alliance(one of the right wing parties, based in the west) didn't know that canada was majority catholic in an interview before the last election. well he's was in the alberta government and catholics a few and far between out there but in the population centers of canada they are huge in numbers especially east of the ottawa river.