Deckman back to "Night Owl" ... I'll be talking with my brother tomorrow and I'll remind him of his story and ask. As soon as I get an answer, I'll let you know. By the way, another piece of CAFE minuta ... whenever you are in a REAL cafe, don't bother to read the menu. I have two tricks for ordering: one, just ask for the blue plate special. (This is always the cooks 'signature' plate and is always good) or ... ask the waitress what SHE plans on having for lunch! It never fails. CHEERS, Bob (deckman) Nelson