Sorry John, not to reply before, things went a bit haywire Friday, first my system went down. My ever so helpful son had done something trying to network his in with mine with the result that both computers sulked . I know , his explanation was much longer and more technical, but I still think they were sulking. Anyway since we were supposed to be leaving from the office in hertford at midday I didn't have time to wait for him to persuade it to work so I had the bright idea of logging on at the office - It was only when I tried this that I discovered that the blue meanies had struck again. Apparently they have some sort of protocol set up like parental control which prevents anyone accessing sites that may "be innapropriate to a work setting" and this they deem to include discussion fora. So I couldn't read your message til I got back. Perhaps it's just as well as one of the group going up was delayed (a child protection case) and we then hit traffic and so didn't get to Manchester until about 9.30. Which would have been too late for most places. We stayed in this pub on Swan St. I can honestly say I've never stayed anywhere quite like it before. Oh well mark one up to experience. Sorry to have missed you maybe another time and thanks for trying.
Jude