The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #34080   Message #458781
Posted By: CRANKY YANKEE
09-May-01 - 01:13 PM
Thread Name: Origins: Blood Red Roses (what's it mean?)
Subject: RE: Blood Red Roses
The lyrics to the verses don't really matter. The "GO DOWN YOU BLOOD RED ROSES GO DOWN" is Instruction for sweating tops'l halyards. "Go"... crew pulls the halyard out perpendicular to the ,mast. "Down" They feed it to whoever is holding the turn around the pin.

This chantey takes into consideration the swtretch and bounce of the halyard and load. That's why the "sweats" are in sets of two. And that's why the "Oh you pinks and posies" gets stretched out,. At this point, the stretch is all out of the halyard and the yard is at the top of it's bounce.

If you've ever sweated a halyard with something really heavy on the other end , l8ike the bower anchor, it reaches a point where you just can't get the load to move anymore, right? So, you turn to eachother and say,something like, "What the hell, it just won't move" upon which the Captain says, "Try it again ". so you do and LO AND BEHOLD THE LOAD MOVES AGAIN. Here'sw why

with all the stretch out of the halyard and it being at the top of the bounce, it starts to bounce "downward" as the rope compresses. When it starts to bounce up again, that's the time to start sweating again. O>K>?,BR.,BR.Stam Hughill is full of shit. . I picked up a copy of his shanty book and opened it at random, First thing I read he says, "Strike the bell is an old traditional; Irish Ballad tune. IN A PIGS ASS IT IS. Henry Clay work, wrote the song ,"Watchman strike the bell" which is where the tune came from. He was not known for adapting folk songs. He also wrote, "Marching through Georgia," My Grandfather's Clock" "Father dear Father come home with me now" and about umpteen others.
Well, says I to myself, "Everyone's entitled to mad a mistake now and then.

Then I came to "Row Bullies Row" which is a dandy song for keeping multiple sets of oars synchronized. BUT NOT THE WAY STAN WRITES IT. He threw the Meter right out the window. And if you sing it the way he wrote it, You start the second verse pushing on the oars instead of pulling on them. Forget the long Row...............Row Bullies Row, and just sing Row, Row Bullies Row without the long note. It comes out reight this way,. show it to someone who understands meter and he'll agree that this way, the meter stays consistent. Then I came across Blood Red Roses and his kakamaimee bit of "looking for social significance" and his "The red uniforms of the British Soldiers art Waterloo and the Frenchmen clling them Blood Red Roses. What a bunch of claptrap./ Anyone who tries to find social signigicance in a sea chantey gets seven years bad luck and if you believe Stan Hughgill, you get 14 years bad luck. read Joanna Colcord's book or Frederick Pease Harlowe's "Chanteying aboard American Ships" He describes them the way I use them. The first time I ran into Stan Hughgill, He was on stage at Mystic Folk Festival with the audience composed mostly of families with children, and he proceeded to pull a botle of Rum out of his back pocket and get "Falling Down Drunk"on stage, thereby furthering the bullshit about the "Drunken Sailor"

I am, in case you're curious, a Professional Boatswain on square rigged ships, and REAL chanteyman, who is in charge of whatever operation he is engaged in.

I had a friend "Herb Spinney" Who was the most experienced Square Rigger sailor I've ever met. When Herby was a young man he was Boatswain of "Lawhill", One of the ships in "The Last Grain Race" in 1939. First time I met him I was singing some chantey or other on stage at the "Bay Voyage" in Jamestown, RI, He waltzed up on stage and, in a deep resonant BOOMING voice said, "Back 'er down there ol' son, you're killing the crew" . Herby taught me a lot about working with Chanteys. He said that the "Go Down" preceeded the rest of the song, it was part of a parody of "Go Down Moses" and it went (Same tune as Blood red roses) Go Down, bloody Moses, Go Down," "Thinks his toes is roses", (from "Moses supposes his toeses is roses) But, Ship Captains were very often deeply religious people and they objected to the cavalier use of a spiritual song. So, it was changed to the way it's sung now.

Don't believe this just because I said it's so, think about it, read what you can on the subject, and make up your own mind.

Herby was lost at sea a few years back . He was Captain of a George's Banks Commercial Fishing boat when he was lost. RIP Herby.

Jody Gibson.