The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #34919   Message #474341
Posted By: Gary T
01-Jun-01 - 08:34 AM
Thread Name: BS: In Search of an Honest Mechanic
Subject: RE: BS: In Search of an Honest Mechanic
Bev and Jerry, I think you've solved that mystery for us!

Banjer, I'm afraid you have an incomplete view of ASE testing and certification.

So the guy reads some pamphlets, fills out a self test and sends it in. They send him back a piece of paper saying he is certified.
The only situation I'm aware of that has a test as described is refrigerant (freon) recovery and recycling. The EPA wants you to have a copy of the rules and read them at least once, hence the pamphlet and "open book" test. The resultant certification entitles one to buy R-12 (the "old style" freon), sales of which are restricted to the general public. This testing is offered through MACS (Mobile Air Conditioning Society), ASE (National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence), and others. It is not referred to as ASE certification.

...honest...[ASE mechanics]...will have to agree that the certification and the patch they wear is more of a sales tool than a teaching device.
I would say it's neither. ASE testing is a voluntary program of written tests to indicate that the mechanic knows what he's talking about. The tests are administered by the company that does the ACT college entrance exams. There is no practicable way to devise and administer hands-on tests. As a general rule (and yes, there are exceptions), if someone can pass the test in a given area, he has a working knowledge of that phase of auto repair. There are tests for auto mechanics, truck mechanics, automotive machinists, auto parts personnel, and auto body repairers. There are eight automotive technician (fancy word for mechanic) tests, in specific areas such as engine performance, brakes, automatic transmissions/transaxles, etc. Someone who has passed all eight tests is certified as a Master Automobile Technician. Someone who has passed one test can call himself ASE certified and wear the arm patches. He almost certainly will work in areas in which he is not certified. If you want to know what areas he is certified in, you have to look at his test certificate.

The value of ASE certification is as an indicator that the testee is reasonably knowledgable in a given area or areas. Also to be considered is that taking the tests tends to reflect a certain pride in one's trade. There are, as you point out, pitfalls and gaps here. Some fine mechanics are not certified--perhaps they just don't buy into the idea, or they're great at fixing cars but lousy at taking written tests. Some bozos are certified--they may be accomplished test-takers, or may be good at theory but unable to effectively put it into practice. Still, the ASE program is better than what it replaced, which was--nothing at all. Most of the top-grade shops want their mechanics to be certified. It's possible to find shops where all the mechanics and even the managers/service advisors are ASE certified Masters. I doubt you'd find such a shop that does poor work. The other side of the coin is reflected by the chain that used to advertise "We have only certified mechanics supervise the work on your car." They could have ONE person certified in ONE area and make that a true--but virtually meaningless--statement. The real point is, ASE certification is not the be-all end-all in evaluating a mechanic or repair facility, but one of several factors to consider. If you're comparing one mechanic to another, ASE certification gives you something to go on.

I agree with your view on chains. Whether it's a service specialty chain (e.g. Midas Mufflers) or a major retailer chain (e.g. Sears), my view is that some accountant in a big-city office is setting policy, and the main thrust of the whole operation is making as much money as possible. "A fish stinks from the head down." Personnel are trained to sell rather than to develop judgment about what is really needed. When you hear about some state's attorney general filing an auto repair suit, the defendant is almost always a chain. There are some good chain stores, but the system makes most of them suspect at best.

Another factor to consider is that the top-grade mechanics are found at the better independent shops and dealerships. The chains tend to have entry-level personnel. Since most consumer problems with auto repair are rooted in incompetence, the abilities of the mechanics are quite important in the big picture. Outright intentional fraud, though dramatic (and great TV), is rare. Most dishonesty is in the form of covering up blunders rather than trying to cheat people.

Bill D, I wince at your story. My scan tool points out that the models without a transmission converter lock-up solenoid will set a code for it, which is to be ignored. It's pretty pathetic if a dealer doesn't know this!

Spaw, my man, yes sir on all you said. I would emphasize your point about describing symptoms. It's like going to a physician. Let the expert do the diagnosis--a complete description of what you're observing is much more helpful than attempts to prescribe what repair is needed (which I'm sorry to have to point out, are often wrong). In a good situation, the auto repair professional is your ally and partner in keeping your car running well, and you will benefit from his expertise.