The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #36203   Message #499937
Posted By: GUEST,Maire
06-Jul-01 - 01:30 PM
Thread Name: Another Sectarian Killing
Subject: RE: Another Sectarian Killing
Graham states:

"Some politicians on both sides in NI are acceding to popular pressure to change. Some aren't. The ones that aren't will eventually fail to be re-elected, and therefore things change."

Which is what happened in the most recent election. However, Sinn Fein's gains weren't made by taking voters from other parties. Their gains were made by bringing in a new generation of young voters who have been empowered to take political action of consequence. No other party in Ireland, north or south, has been able to do this in the past 10 years.

And then goes on to say:

"The idea of the NI Assembly is to allow NI self-government on issues like day-to-day running of the country and law and order. Is it working? Not too well, bcos both sides in NI don't (or won't, or can't; spin-doctor it how you will) trust each other or the British and Irish governments."

The devolution movement in Britain includes devolved assemblies and powers throughout the UK, ie Scotland and Wales as well. How well is it working in those instances? It is all relative. There is profoud mistrust of London, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Belfast, and Dublin too for that matter. This is a *process* which is on-going. Eventually, I believe, we'll see independence for both Ireland and Scotland, and their assimilation into the EU, if current government trends in Dublin and Edinburgh are anything to go by.

And then:

"And remember, no-one in Britain elects politicians for the NI Assembly - that's your choice, and the NI Assembly depends on NI politicians running things. I know you didn't vote for Trimble, but he's the head of the Assembly, and therefore you are as responsible for his actions as Jon is for the actions of Tony Blair - you can't have it both ways. Think on."

You are assuming too much about me here. I'm an American citizen.

You are really arguing the old British government propaganda line here Graham. Sinn Fein is a republican party, not unlike the SNP in Scotland. The latter has aspirations for independence from Britain. The former is a party demanding reunification with the Republic of Ireland. You are acting like everyone on the British mainland is in lock-step with Downing Street. That is disingenuous.

I don't foam at the mouth about the north being part of the UK at all. I recognize it as a reality that has to be dealt with, as the process works its way towards eventual reunification of the north with the Republic. I don't have a problem with Britain. Just a problem with Britain in Ireland. Like I do with the U.S. in _______(fill in the blank). And I am serious about that, but you may not get my point!

And then:

"What democracy doesn't mean is using violence as a tool to bring pressure to bear (or as a tool of government, something of which the British Government has also been guilty of)."

Oh come on, there has been use of political violence as a tool to bring about democratic change for centuries. This is such a bullshit argument. Graham--war and violence worked very well for the U.S. to gain independence from England. It worked in France.

Many democratic reforms have been brought about through the use of both state sponsored and so-called terrorist sponsored political violence--if you wish to deny the reality of history, go ahead. But it won't change the fact that both governments and the people who oppose them, use violence as a means to their end.

Having said that, I am committed to movements for democratic change who try to bring that change about non-violently wherever possible. But there have been plenty of instances in history where it wasn't possible or even plausible. And that continues to be true today.

The IRA is not a signatory to the GFA. They continue to keep their arsenals because it is one of the few bargaining chips, along with Sinn Fein's electoral gains, the republican community has in negotiations. Strategically, they'd be fools to put their weapons beyond use at this point, when no meaningful political change has yet taken hold.

It is important to keep in mind that Sinn Fein is extremely marginalized in this process, and truly wields no power or authority within the power structure of Northern Ireland or Britain. They also aren't using the weapons--their ceasefire has held for years. If that ain't enough for the British, the British Unionists, and the Irish government, then they are, as BigMick stated, not genuinely interested in peace--they are merely interested in maintaining the status quo that keeps them in power--in this instance, destabilizing life on the ground, and terrorizing the republican and nationalist communities in order to provoke retaliatory violence, which will then be used as a club to beat Sinn Fein out of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

I agree with you completely about how the GFA should not be linked to decommissioning, but to the operation of inclusive, democratic political and social institutions. However, the British government, the U.S. government, the French government, and many other presumed democratic political institutions, currently hold a shitload of the most destructive weapons--ya know--nukes, cluster bombs, fighter jets, subs, etc--on the planet. And they use them regularly against innocent civilians all the time.

So I find arguments claiming that IRA weaponry is a barrier to democracy to be pretty specious. What is blocking progress towards democratic rule in Northern Ireland are the Ulster Unionists and Loyalists, the British and Irish governments, and the global media cartel.

The most important, salient point to be made regarding IRA weapons is that they haven't been used in years. Loyalist weapons, RUC weapons, British security forces weapons, and EU water cannons, have been and continue to be used, with great regularity against the citizens of Northern Ireland, regardless of what community they are from.