I think it's more complicated than that. I think that maybe some of the time the unpleasantness and the politics have a positive effect, even when in themselves they may be damaging.

I was reading somewhere about how bones when healing need to be subject to some kind of stress, and the outcome from constantly repairing minor damage is actually better and stronger than if there hadn't been the damage in the first place.

I'm not suggesting taking that analogy too far. It's just one of the elements in a complicated process.

I had a look at that Heartcall Cafe site. Clearly very new, maybe it'll build up into something, and good luck to it - since there seems to be a fair number of people who say they prefer the separate forums approach, it could be a place for them to test out whether it really works for them.

I came back to the Mudcat with renewed appreciation of the way Max has resisted the calls for breaking up the Mudcat into sub-forums and so forth, and has kept it all looking so clean and clear and open. And no preformed emoticoms, thank goodness.