There's no real solution. Personally, When I see whining, If I see it early enough, I may ask people to take it elsewhere, I see nothing wrong with OBIT threads but we are honouring no one's memory when we spend half the time grissling about what SHOULD be in the thread. I was thinking it might be nice to have this discussion once and point everyone who wants to talk about the relative merits of OBIT threads to it. I don't really expect this to happen but at least I've got it off my chest!