To the one & the only, the very only Dai,

No I didn't mean myself. That was a slip. I meant me/us as an English person.(i must admit to having some faults!) Actually I love trad. (TM), best. But I veer between being intensely proud of 'the English' (sorry Ian) and immensely ashamed at 'our/their' attitude to lots of things. However, aren't all people like that about their own culture. I've heard people from all backgrounds bemoaning the way their contrypeople go on. Actually, my family background is Irish, Welsh and Cornish, but I still, as I was born in England, am English.

You're all right. Whoever started out as a flame thrower has flared an interesting dicussion.

Ian, when people are talking in generalisations or referring to stereotypes, I never feel concerned. It never crosses my mind they might mean me!!!!!!! Maybe they are... D

Cheers all you people wherever you come from and thanks for the chat.