As aschool music teacher I have been lurking on this thread without saying anything- I have to agree that there's a lot of really bad music education going on. That's why I decided to become a music teacher- to see if it could be done better! I agree with MMario and Penny- it is very hard to get kids to sing after about the age of 9 when "cool" sets in, as well as the fear of looking like a fool in front of one's peers. I just hammer away at it with the most appealing songs I can think of, folk or not, from "Sail Away, Ladies" (which they love) to"Shenandoah" (which they love but won't admit it to each other!) to the good old bad old "Titanic" ("it was saaaaaaaaaaad, it was saaaaaaaad..."), to, yes, I confess it freely, "Waltzing With Bears". Once they are used to singing, they'll do it, however reluctantly at first, and when they realize everyone else is singing too and not glancing sideways at them, it gets better. But the Popular Culture has as much to do with the downfall of music as the bad teachers (and they sure are out there!) themselves.