Thanks for the concern Amergin, I also don't feel DougR is condesending. I also have been compaired to the man who hits the mule with the 2 by 4, to get his attention before making a point, I know where Doug's heart is and he is actually refering to our other conversation about war. I can't even speculate what our history would have been if we had less war in the eighteenth century, my co-religionists were attempting to have us evolve out of war even then. Cheers Larry