thanks for your comment SharonA I dont think I used a good example, I should have said its the same sound as in Hey without the 'y' (heh) but longer When I told a Japanese girlfriend the Czech version she was in stitches for ages, to her it was completely unpronouncable as the Japanese language is mostly broken down to syllables not individual letter sounds. ie MacDonalds becomes Mako do na ru do. or Ai su ku ri mu, Ice cream, etc.