re: sian west wales and giraldus cambrensis. i think given the context and the date( 1180 ish) he was referring to probably england and wales as britain, by whhich adte the area north of thehumber he is talking about was probably pretty much anglo/scandinavian rather than welsh. mind you, there is evidence that welsh was still spoken in parts of cumbria still by that date. its a murky area. but i agree you canmake a case for some welsh/celtic traditions generating the harmony singing he was talking about. we havent got a lot of background info. anything else to go on,anyone? british/celtic, anglo or scandinavian in the harmony invention stakes? but i stick by my original point, which ws thatharmony has been around in england for a long time! greg