Cllr (in a long-awaited return to the thread he started) is spot on with that observation about Thatcher v Kinnock. Without doubt Kinnock was a better speaker (on his day) and by miles. But in the cut and thrust of debate, Thatcher had his measure every time - even in the Westland debate, where Kinnock held all the cards. This cannot merely be about power. Blair is in power with a colossal majority, yet in Commons spats, William Hague invariably came out on top.

Fiolar, the "lady's not for turning" was of course a play on Christopher Fry's play, "The Lady's not for Burning."