Hi gareth,

I think we've misunderstood one another. I thought YOU had raised the question of the red flag, and you obviously thought I did. The song says "red is the coulour of the new republic." It does not say anything about flying the red flag. As far as I can tell, you brought that up for the first time in your post. I was just quoting the lyrics, not making my own judgment about the meaning of "red." But I can see how my comments could be misread that way; sorry!

The Song, I think, is talking about flying the tricolour: red is the colour of the new republic, blue is the colour of the sea, white is the colour of my innocence." But, of course,the union jack and the American flag have the same colors, so it's open to interpretation. Combined with the lyrics about waiting for the revolution and waiting for bonaparte, though,it seems obvious these guys decided to throw their lots in with the French and republicanism in general. This was considered by the Hermione crew, by the way.

On closer examination you may be right and Socialism may have nothing to do with the song narrator's politics. But there are other reasons to think it does. The song is clearly addressed to a working class audience perceived on a class basis: "all you soldiers, all you sailors, all you workers of the land..." no officers, magistrates, or Lords are mentioned!

Anyway, I'm sure the red flag flying at the Nore has nothing to do with the lyric "red is the color of the new republic" mentioned in the song. Your observation that Napoleon was not yet dictator in 1797 is also largely irrelevant to an understanding of the song. I don't remember the song mentioning 1797 at all. But it does mention Napoleon by name. So the "matter of accuracy" you bring up supports my contention that the song can not credibly be referring to Spithead or the Nore--at that time no one would be "waiting for Bonaparte."

I suspect, Gareth, that your knowledge of naval history outstrips your knowledge of the song in question. Not a sin, but both types of knowledge are needed to answer the question!

One area of naval history where you're definitely wrong is The Black Ship. It is definitely about the Hermione; I've read it within the last 4 months. To quote the publisher's web site:

"In a true story evocative of Mutiny on the Bounty, Pope recounts one of the most brutal episodes in British Naval history, the bloody mutiny aboard H.M.S. Hermione, and the Royal Navy's daring recapture of the same ship."

Check it out at http://www.heartofoak.com/blackship.htm

Maybe he wrote another book of the same name, or maybe someone else did. But his historical book called The Black Ship IS about HMS Hermione.

Finally, all the Nerd posts are from the same Nerd; I'm a member, but not on my own computer!

Forgive me if this all sounds brusque; I'm in a library and rather in a hurry! I agree,Gareth, that your knowledge of Naval history is impressive, but the song lyrics just don't support a connection with any of the famous mutinies you mention.

Nerd