This thread started out trying to approach this issue in a positive way, trying to imagine things that might help. I think it'd be a good idea of we tried to keep it that way.

There are some deep disagreements about this, but there are also a lot of shared values. We're all against injustice and murder and lies. The disagreements are mostly based on a different understandings of the actual facts. Important disagreements about who has done what to who, and how it came about - but beneath them there is common ground.

It's possible to explain how we see the facts, and point out additional facts that seem to be overlooked by the people with whom we are at odds, and to do that without getting into a confrontational stance. So why don't we?

And once thing that never helps in these kind of discussions is sarcasm. It just gets in the way of anything useful. If I've ever slipped into it, I apologise.