As the loathed guest (along with Peace Matriot) in this thread, I just wanted to jump back in to say Pete Boom and Bill Kennedy have expressed their values through their writing here very well. I share those values, and in the context of these Memorial Day threads, I especially agree with Bill's statement:

"And though I have great respect for the people who sincerely believed in our 'cause' in any of these places, and felt that they had a duty to go, and then performed that duty well, there is nothing honorable to me about the cause in support of which they served and/or died. By saying that, I mean that whatever side you are on, pro-war or anti-war, just being on that side is not enough to warrant my respect and friendship".

I quote it in it's entirety, because I think it bears repeating.

I also agree strongly with Pete's suggestion that the vociferous reaction by Mudcat member US veterans and their Mudcat friends is firmly rooted in the American tradition of honoring of *US* military dead exclusively. I think that Bush made an effort to counter that perception among the Europeans (his trip to Europe over US Memorial Day is the first time a US president has ever been outside the US on the day). But the United States has never done much to memorialize people killed in war and armed conflict beyond it's own borders, except it's own soldiers. There are some rare exceptions, most notably the Holocaust memorials (but is that because of the power and influence of the Diasporan Jews and the Israeli lobby? I dunno.

Despite that, other communities of US citizens and residents descended from "old country" folk do memorialize their ancestors in US celebrations. But there is only the begrudging and patronizing "multi-culti" support given to those efforts. I'm thinking of one--Cinco de Mayo--which is gaining in popularity here in the US because of the increased Latino population. But there isn't much else.

I'm pretty cynical about Bush going to Normandy on US Memorial Day (and really, it still came off to me looking like he was there to honor American war dead, not really to honor all the war dead). I think it was done because of those sorts of mounting criticisms of the way most involved (at any point in their lives) in the US military industrial establishment views our US military as the only war dead worthy of being "honored". I suppose Armistice Day could be viewed as an attempt to honor all the war dead, but really, in the US the military/families of military both present and former, don't seem to like to share the podium with anyone who mentions that it is millions of civilians, not millions of soldiers, which are routinely slaughtered in war.

I think of US Memorial Day as the military's holiday. I include the entire military family, which includes many people who have never seen combat or lived abroad. I'd like to believe that US military personnel and their families who have lived and served abroad had a more cosmopolitan and internationalized view of the world, but in my experience they don't. They are often hostile about the natives of the countries they get stationed in, and feel isolated (because they are, of course) and often persecuted by the locals. You see almost identical mentalites on US bases towards the locals.

All just my opinion, of course, which hasn't been terribly welcome here.

And about forced conscription being a thing of the past in most Western nations (it isn't, and a quick web search makes that clear), it is easy to dispense with conscription in peace time. But when (not if, when) the Western democratic republics decide to go to war again, conscription/the draft will be reinstituted in a heartbeat.

I am, however, quite heartened to see the United Nations' movement against the use of child soldiers in armed conflict, forced conscription and sexual slavery that goes with it, making so much headway in recent years. When combined with the United Nations and other human rights organizations' work to end all conscription and forced volunteerism, and international human rights treaties being forced to the top of the international agenda as we have seen in the past decade, including the War Crimes Tribunals treaty the US has refused to sign, I have a tremendous amount of hope for the future.

I really do believe we are on the eve of a global transformation, and that a global, just, enforceable peace without the use of military and paramilitary violence, is what our future holds. Too many people have suffered too much, for too long. Anti-war work is some of the most important work a person can do to effective those changes practically, on the ground, today. Over 25 million people, mostly civilians, have been killed in war and armed conflicts worldwide since WWII ended.

I believe that the smaller the world becomes, and the harder we fight ALL the institutions of war funded by global capitalism, the sooner we will see that future become our present day reality. The anti-war movements around the world have made tremendous progress in the past 100 years.

The people who have been involved in those movements, while highly deserving of our society's highest honors (as someone previously mentioned), receive about the same reception that Peace Matriot and myself have received here. The anti-war and peace activists are mostly reviled by those currently or formerly involved with wars, as the statements we have seen in these threads reflect, IMO. Statements like "you are the type of people who spit on returning war veterans" or "anti-war people shouting fuck Nixon/war" shows how little experience those people have had with the anti-war and peace movements of our time. Those are tired, stale stereotypes, and inaccurate ones at that.

We all make choices about the sorts of people we choose to formally and informally "honor and respect". I choose not to honor or respect the choice people make to serve in the military. Rather, I choose to honor those who refuse to serve, who work to end war, armed conflict, and the use of violence to rule instead.

Just like the Native Americans who view US Thanksgiving Day as a day of national shame, I view US Memorial Day as a day of national shame. I know that will set off the vets and their friends here, but that's the way it goes. But I can suggest we all come together to honor ALL the war dead, and do all we can, including engaging in antimilitarist activism, to honor the declaration of War Resisters' International:

"War is a crime against humanity. I am therefore determined not to support any kind of war, and to strive for the removal of all causes of war".

War Resisters' International exists to promote nonviolent action against the causes of war, and to support and connect people around the world who refuse to take part in war or the preparation of war. On this basis, WRI works for a world without war.

I honor all peoples' human right to refuse to kill.

I honor and participate in 15 May - International Conscientious Objectors' Day activities. I honor and participate in 1 December - Prisoners for Peace Day. I honor and respect people going to jail for engaging in civil disobedience at the School of the Americas, who hammered swords into plowshares at GE, Vietnam draft resisters who went to Canada and/or jail.

The Triennial Conference of War Resisters' International will be held this year in Dublin in August. For anyone who might be interested in attending, or learning more about it, here is the website for the "Stories And Strategies Nonviolent Resistance And Social Change" conference:

http://www.wri-irg.org/tri/2002/index.htm