Thanks for straightening that out for me, Bobert. Now that I realize I'm an unwitting dupe who just can't understand the incisive logic of your position, I'm sure I'll re-examine the issue and come to see it your way. It's also a nice change from the "aw shucks ol Bobert" personna. You should really consider the legal profession, you know.

Oh...and thanks Ebbie for actually outlining your position. I find little in your list with which I could disagree, except perhaps the statement In reading the history of Nazism in the German culture, it becomes quite clear that the administration made a number of tentative moves from time to time to ascertain the mood of the German people and how much they would stand for and at what speed. If the German people ( read that as us in a similar situation) had spoken at those points of intervention, history would have developed differently. For some reason I don't see Hitler as a man trying to win a popularity contest. I think at a certain point he had lost his grip to a point that he believed his will was Germany's. I also feel that the key word in your manifesto is "most". "Most" people do want the things you speak of, but many are willing to settle for a lot less than to "see the future as being a limitless expanse of opportunity and challenge." And as long as there are enough others who subordinate the will of these people to their own needs, the cycle continues. I may see those oppressors as regimes like China, Iraq, North Korea and Cuba. You may see them as the US, Britain and Japan. One man's hero is another man's villain. One man's Napoleon is another's George Washington, and we point our fingers at each other. There are even some who, while proclaiming peace through understanding will oppose those with differing views as people who "just can't get it", unable to offer legitimate solutions, but coyly hinting that they are, depite all outward appearances, enlightened.

Until we formulate a true vision for a world at peace, and create a process for implementing it, taking into consideration and thoughtfully compromising different views and needs...until we begin that process, hoping that good thoughts will somehow make peace materialize is like hoping the lottery will make you rich. Sometimes, you need to actually DO something to achieve your goals.