This around and around discussion is nicely addressed in the film Contact. What we have here is what Carol and I have in our marriage, insurmountable differences in our world views of things faith based. We have solved it by not solving it---by agreeing to disagree. Some paradoxes simply must be taken note of -- stated as well as we can---and then left to hover in the air where folks like me and WUSSIEWYG can peacefully differ and, with little harm done (hopefully) move on our way... I like what you all are saying. Good polemics all. Some thruths are to be found therein.

Art Thieme