The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #47925   Message #733864
Posted By: Deda
20-Jun-02 - 03:48 PM
Thread Name: BS: Who are the terrorists? Part 113
Subject: RE: BS: Who are the terrorists? Part 113
As I have said before, I think there has to be an eventual Palestinian state, as well. However, I think that the following figures and data should just be noted for the record:
The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees FROM Arab countries is estimated to be the same, but they get no air time at all, and no coverage is ever given to the expulsion of Jews from Arab and non-Arab countries, which happened over and over throughout history. Does anyone on this thread know when the Jews were expelled from Spain? from England (oh, yes, they were)? It wasn't recent. We'll just skip the subject of pogroms, because we might have to concede that the Jewish people actually NEED a homeland, and needed one long before Hitler was conceived.
Arab refugees (i.e., Palestinians)were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than Wales, a little bigger than Rhode Island. All the Arab countries combined have a land mass about 1 1/2 times the size of the USA.
The Arabs are represented by at least eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won. (The two intifadas, including the current one, are not included in this count.)

The P.L.O.'s Charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Every Palestinian letterhead, uniform and national symbol includes a map of "Palestine" in the shape of Israel -- meaning that Israel has to cease to exist. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank and autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, at least until the violence got entirely out of hand, and has supplied them with weapons.
Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. The area around the Western Wall was buried under apartments and alleys, and was inaccessible, even if Jews had been permitted there which they weren't.
Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths -- although Jews are not welcome at the dome of the rock. Anyone is permitted entry to the Western Wall, although they may have to go through a security screening.

Bottom line: Israeli soldiers really don't aim at civilians, they try to avoid civilian casualties when they can, but they are under extreme stress, their lives and those of their fellow citizens (friends, parents, children, family) are on the line and at risk every single minute, and sometimes they fail in that effort. Suicide bombers aim to take out as many civilians as they can, and the more they kill the more they are considered to have succeeded. Somehow this is Israel's fault. I'm sorry, I don't get it. There is no way for Israel to win the world's approval and still survive, and that's extremely clear. So it will have to get by without it, and the world at large will continue to blather on and on about how wicked and vicious Israel is, but it will survive.
Arafat's PA is an autocracy. Much of the misery of the Palestinian people is because they have such a wretched excuse for a government. Where is democracy in the Arab world? Where is good governance? Where is freedom -- of the press, of religion, of expression, of women? What checks and balances are there against corruption? Let them try those things. Let them try to establish a real judiciary, a system of justice, a representative form of government by and for their own people. I would be willing to bet anything (and I have a LOT riding on this, as I've mentioned before) that a well-governed Palestinian people could and would make peace. But Arafat can keep his people (and much of the world) distracted from his own corruption by blaming Israel for everything, and by admitting no responsibility whatsoever, and then he can go on holding power.

I am at work and I really don't have time for this. I've made myself take a break from reading this thread, but I broke my rule here, obviously. Some of this data I've cut & pasted from other sources, some of it is my own.
One last question. Palestinian Arabs live in Jerusalem and all over Israel, they have civil rights, are allowed to vote. They are represented in the Knesset. Is there ANY Arab country where that can be said of Jews?