The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #49007   Message #739357
Posted By: GUEST
29-Jun-02 - 08:11 AM
Thread Name: Help: Irish Keening-Caoineadh- Help?
Subject: RE: Help: Irish Keening-Caoineadh- Help?
Day late and a dollar short here, but if you commonly use the song...

The above link looks like one of Conrad's cut and paste jobs without acknowledgment, and Conrad isn't exactly known for his scholarly accuracy about all things Irish shall we say?

I did a quick glance of the page, and it says men performed caoineadh, which they didn't. The performance of poetry in Gaelic Ireland, like many other places in the world, was gendered--ie, there was men's poetry and there was women's poetry. Caoineadh was women's poetry. The metre and rhyming schemes weren't as complex as some other forms of Gaelic poetry, but the rituals associated with it were. I urge you to read this article by Jane Bowers, titled "Women's Music and the Life Cycle":

WOMEN'S MUSIC AND THE LIFE CYCLE

It isn't about Irish traditions, but it gives you an idea of how women's song and poetry traditions functioned in traditional societies. Much of what she writes about in this article is also true of the Irish tradition of caoineadh. Ritual lament was also performed in other contexts than just funerals. Although it hasn't been documented in Ireland, ritual laments were also performed at weddings in many traditional European cultures.

There really isn't any good information specific to Gaelic caoineadh on the web. It all seems to be New Agey sort of stuff, and not very useful to explain the genre.

Gaelic women weren't the only ones who used this form of ritual lament. It was common across Europe.

Here is a link to a website with analysis and real audio of a Hungarian lament:

ANALYSIS AND REAL AUDIO OF HUNGARIAN LAMENT

Here is the notes page link to that lament, which will give you some context to the performance of lament:

NOTES ON HUNGARIAN LAMENT

Hope this helps.

Links added by JoeClone