Mr Happy, you're saying that folk music is getting worse treatment than other forms of music. I don't think that's true - try telling that to anyone into rave music who's been arrested in whatever disused warehouse they've been using! I don't see that folk music should get different treatment from every other form of music.

Shambles, re the "not in principle intended to be public entertainment", I'm afraid I'm going to go into that point by point.

Two of the three sessions I go to regularly use microphones and amplification to ensure the whole room can hear. If this was just for the entertainment of the 10 to 20 performers (depending on how many turn up that night), those ppl could sit in a circle and dispense with all electronics. But when you deliberately send the sound to the whole room, you are performing to the whole room. Therefore it's providing entertainment for the whole room.

Even if they did just play so that only they could hear, the players are performing to the non-players - less true in session-type settings, but definitely true in singarounds. In session-type settings, the players are performing to other players! So we're all being entertained. And one of your key points is that "no-one is obliged to turn up", therefore we are all just members of the public providing entertainment to other members of the public.

Finally, the players not being obliged to turn up doesn't make any difference to whether they are performers or not. When they stand up and sing, they are performing. Therefore they are performers. What other definition is there?

I don't see that the definition is overly broad, only that it's obsolete. The "2-in-a-bar" rule became pointless as soon as amplifiers became available, so anyone could crank the knobs up to 11 and blow the ceiling off with just a mic and an electric guitar. Surely this is where the new PEL will come in, to limit only the dB level and time at which music can be played, and not the number of players? And any pub can get the new PEL, bcos it doesn't cost any more than a basic liquor license - restrictions on getting a music license will then just be based on the location and soundproofing.

Graham.