Mike Harding was good, and he idn't let Kim Howells get awy with much (and the man tried, he tried). What we got out of him was a promise that, where money doesn't change hands, sessions in pubs will be allowed to go ahead without interference; and a promise that a licence that covers music as well as alcohol will cost no more than a licence that only covers alcohol.

However I wouldn't trust the man as far as I could throw him. Pledges on the Mike Harding show don't count when it comes to interpreting the legislation.

And even if the law complies with what Kim Howells said, there are still some real dangers.

1. It appears that any kind of money changing hands turns a session into an entertainment that needs a licence - so even a few quid in the hand to the organiser to cover the costs of ringing round and so forth would put it over the line. And I strongly suspect that a few pints of beer for the performers would also fall into the same trap.

2. Even if there is no charge for the liccence to cover entertainment, that still allows a local authority to lay down all kinds of requirements for additional facilities which would inhibit publicans from applying for it - and the evidence so far is that these are often highly unrealistic and geared to a completely different level of event.

3. There was no mention of the situation as regards premises other than pubs where the PEL requirements inhibit people from making music - for example coffee bars or indeed anywhere which is open to the public.