The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #50047   Message #757982
Posted By: Teribus
01-Aug-02 - 05:15 AM
Thread Name: excellent judgment - bad customs
Subject: RE: excellent judgment - bad customs
From my own personal experience, having travelled in and out of the UK frequently for the last thirty odd years, I have never had any problems with H.M. Customs and Excise.

Open borders were established in Europe years ago, the UK did not adopt this policy as it was not compatible with the anti-terrorist legislation in place under the Emergency Powers Act.

As part of the European Union, British citizens can buy duty paid goods in Europe provided it is for for their own consumption. This welcome change for the majority has been abused by some. No point in having a law if it is not going to be enforced.

H. M. Customs and Excise operate under strict rules. On returning to the UK you have a choice of entering through the Green (Nothing to declare), Blue (Nothing to declare -arrival from the EU) or Red (Goods to declare) channels. In choosing to pass through Green or Blue everyone is clearly warned that they are liable to be stopped and challenged. In searching your baggage the Customs Officer is not allowed to "disturb the lie of your clothing" and must leave it exactly as he found it, if, however, the Customs Officer does find something, he may then - legally - shread everything you possess, impound and strip your car to the last nut and bolt then confiscate the vehicle. The traveller has made his free choice and declaration in entering the channel.

Rafflesbear, you say that:
"in britain we have high tax on alcohol and tobacco, far higher than mainland europe (we also pay more for cars but that is not down to duty). we are in theory permitted to travel to europe and bring back as much alcohol and tobacco products as we like as long as we do not resell for profit.

in practice our customs rigorously enforce limits and people have their cars taken from them if they cannot convince the customs that their imports are for personal use only."

As long as we do not resell for profit, should read as long as it is for personal consumption. Those who make regular trips to the Hyper-markets in France and Belgium (i.e. once or twice a month) driving hired transit vans loaded down to the hilt are basically pleading to be stopped as their grounds for "personal use" would be unreasonable to support. I have not heard of one instance where mum, dad and the kids returning from Europe have had their car confiscated for the amount of duty paid goods they are carrying - the exceptions, before anyone mentions it, are the instances where drugs are involved.

You also have not been following the recent agreement reached regarding legal proceedings and the judiciary now applicable throughout Europe. Your statement that:
"...we are in europe and subject to the treaties we have signed and the european court of human rights, one of which must be that we are innocent until proven guilty and not to be subject to random stop and search.....

Under European Law, both "Habeus Corpus (Sp?)" and the premise that you are innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers, does not exist - both rights were enshrined in English and Scottish Law. The right of random stop and search has been a common practice in a number of European countries for decades, it has only been recently introduced in the UK and having exercised their right the police have to demonstrate reasonable grounds for conducting that search.

The present rules relating to H.M. Customs and Excise can be viewed very much like the arguements for and against I.D. cards - if you have nothing to hide they can do no harm and do not impinge on civil liberty.