The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #17283   Message #791883
Posted By: Declan
26-Sep-02 - 01:26 PM
Thread Name: DTStudy: A Nation Once Again
Subject: RE: DTStudy: A Nation Once Again
I apologise in advance for adding to this thread, which I know is supposed to focus on the song (you can edit this out if you like). However the notes above are quite questionable in a number of respects.

Was Ireland ever a Nation before the song was written ? A very good question - may depend on your definition of a Nation - does it need to have its own state/parliament to make it a nation ?

Was Ireland any closer to being a Nation during Grattan's Parliament (1782-1800). The answer here is almost certainly not. The Parliament was far from being a national one in any event, being elected by only a small proportion of the country - Catholic emancipation was still over 30 years away and while some of the ordinary people may have had a vote there was no secrecy of the ballot and in many cases they voted in accordance with their landlords wishes - if they knew what was good for them.

The reasons behind the 1798 uprising by the United Irishmen were many, but poor government from Dublin was hardly the main issue. The notes could be interpreted to suggest that the 1798 rebels were revolting to bring down the Dublin Parliament and the the Act of Union was brought in to counter this alleged misrule. This was certainly not the case.

As for Thomas Davis, he may have died in 1845, but it was clear that the Young Ireland movement of which he was part were in favour of violent revolution and fell out with O Connell on this very topic. They actually attempted an uprising in 1848 but this was abortive. Given that this was at the height of the Famine this was hardly surprising.

My last gripe ! Earliest Date 1962 ??? Thomas Davis was dead for 117 years by then.


Hi, Declan - in the Traditional Ballad Index, the "earliest date" is the earliest transcription of the song that is covered in the Index. There may be earlier transcriptions, but they haven't been included in the Index.
-Joe Offer-