The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #52026   Message #796509
Posted By: GUEST,Taliesn
03-Oct-02 - 09:16 PM
Thread Name: BS: Patriotism -- what is it?
Subject: RE: BS: Patriotism -- what is it?
No one particular post to quote, but I do not confuse ,and draw a bright line betwen , "patriotism" in contrast with the more traditional "nationalism" which grew out of "tribalism".
Tribes making war on other tribes is as old as tribalism itself.

I make this distinction in light of how America is different in that there is no real sense of "national ethnicity" in the way the ancient regimes identify themselves as such. The Euro tribes that arouse out of the disintegration of the Roman Superstate
which was a mega-scale of the same campaign of regional tribal incorproation that England went through trying to conquor all of its tribes to serbe under one crown and then under one church created by that same crown.

Patriotism was given a new definition when it was in defense of an identity drawn from an idea, a set of principals ,as opposed to what mostly amounts to a confederacy of tribal identities organized and given a larger identity under some form of royalty or Hapsburgian panoply.

A more current example of agressive "nationalism" that jumps off the page is what Beijing has been enforced and socially engineered so that *any* criticism of Beijing is immediately labeled as "anti-Chinese" and followed by Orwellian mass shake-ones-fist-at-the-west exercises.

I am also very aware , and the first to voice critique , of the present administration ginning up the war rhetoric and defining "patriotism" on their terms only.

That is why I make the point to broaden the concept of *Patriotism* in defense of the principals that created this particular body politique to include making damn sure this system is not just hijacked by just an ideologically-driven agenda . Preservation of the intergrity of those founding set of principals that have continued to evolve requires the kind of more inclusive *patriotism* that watches its own government like a hawk and not let it get away with the half-baked war plan as was allowed back during the failed solution to IraQ AND Afghanistan.

I guess I'm stressing *patriotism* as a specific genre of *stewardship* as opposed to the "My country ,right or wrong"
*nationalism* that can manipulated.

Obviously the radical Islamist jihadists are every bit "Islam ,right or wrong" and have proven that they are quite willing to give their lives to commit atrocities . And yet each and every nation-state that harbors these "pan-Islamist tribal warriors" is atleast an "authoritarian" or "royal" theocracy when not an outright totalitarian dictatorship. Knowing this where does *patriotism* even apply in their acts. This is as much the perversion of any concept of "patriotism" as the Islamic scholars are only now beginning to acknowledge in public lectures, for the record, as the outright "perversion" of Islam as a trans-national identity.