The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #52026   Message #796838
Posted By: GUEST,Taliesn
04-Oct-02 - 11:06 AM
Thread Name: BS: Patriotism -- what is it?
Subject: RE: BS: Patriotism -- what is it?
"I think I drew a line between patriotism and nationalism above. It's "patriotism" when one approves of it, and "nationalism" when one doesn't. It's that simple."

Well you may have drawn the line in "your mind" , but the distinction between the two has *never* been "that simple".
If only it were , but it's *not*!

I know , " it's just my opinion " , but it is so far removed from the record of the "real politique" of sociological record as to be meaningless. The world does not exist in your mind ,but on its own very real playing field ( battlefield ) terms.

It's great to be as idealistically "free spirited" as ol' Tom Jefferson as that's where new ideas comes from , but then also look at what a rank hypocrite he also turned out to be;
All men ( except slaves ) are created equal with inalienable rights from "The Creator". Meanwhile your appeal to some kind of "galactic" La-la land definition of patriotism offers little of practical use.

Your post also appears to be making an almost flippant correlation to the originally quoted " One 's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter" which grew out of the fierce debate over the Reagan admin's justifying of their para-military support for the contra's as supporting "freedom fighters". The Iran-Contra Hearings took care of the credibility for the official spin on that mis-definition of "freedom-fighter patriotism".

Nationalism has far more ominous overtones whereas mere patriotism is employed as the medium of manipulation towards that end *only* if we allow it .

That is why I make the distinction of broadening "patriotism" to including vigilant *stewardship* of those founding principles and raisng voices whren political manipulation is ginned-up.
That patriotism of *stewardship* means *pre-emptively* holding each & every administration and Congress and party-in-power to account for their actions. The *patriotism* I define is designed to pre-empt any slippery-slope sliding into the rank *nationalism*
that the Euros and the Japanese historically know so well and the pan-Islamic world is attempting to engineer through its media of choice starting with its Wahabi-influenced mosques.

And since the Al-Quaeda network of self-proclaimed "terrorist jihadists" has already brought their war against the West to our home shores ( Their *ideal* world meaning even *you* should die ) a showdown has already been set into motion even if the U.S. and whomever else considers themselves a targeted Westerner does nothing. I still far prefer tighter *containment* of Iraq as the blockading of Cuba during the Cuban missle crisis
than an all-out pre-emptive "taking of Iraq" as I beleive this will result in the same oil field inferno, blown to "biblical proprotions", as Saddam's deliberate setting of the Kuwati Oil fields only this time there won't be militarily secured ground from which to put them out.

While we're at it , whom appeals to their hearts & minds to miraculously embrace your La-la landed evangel of "galactic patriotism". Time to quite doing 'shrooms because this situation is a real as a heart attack

A very real Cold World War III with a very real network of terrorist cells , never just limted to al-Quaeda mind you , is *on* like it or not and the global black market is alive and well.

So it's not so simple as you choose to imagine.